---
categories:
  - "[[Meetings]]"
type: []
date: 2026-03-31
org:
loc:
people:
  - "[[Darsh Shah]]"
topics: []
granola_id: 7066677a-7877-47d7-bac1-c4c93edcf6bb
source: granola
---

# Organizational Changes & Team Updates
## Notes

## Summary

### Organizational Changes & Team Updates

- Eugene moved off Fab team, now leads UE AI under unclear reporting structure

  - Possibly reports to Seb (product focus) or Ryan Dixon (business focus)
  - Most of Eugene’s previous team eliminated
- Avi now runs Fab team (former publishing/2P content lead)

  - Guillermo (Fab paid marketing lead) let go - paid marketing currently leaderless
  - Stacy Coldridge and Kim Swindle also departed
  - Major gaps across company marketing functions
- Nick moved under Kyle Billings for EGF product/strategy work

  - Role definition still TBD as structure gets worked out
  - Will balance multiple contexts including legacy products being sunset
  - Can still support Fab in interim period


### Budget & Financial Planning

- Publishing budget originally proposed at $1M

  - Bill previously indicated trying to maintain at least $500K
  - Current status unknown due to recent changes and Bill traveling
  - Ryan Dixon now serving as buffer to resolve budget questions
- $400K budget already approved and secured

  - LT limited time free drives bi-weekly engagement cannot be replaced
  - This component protected from cuts
- Strategy shift toward smaller investments ($20K checks) showing good ROI

  - Avoiding large deals ($200K-$6.2M range) like previous Git Brush arrangement
- Bill emphasized need to save money and avoid investing in non-performing initiatives


### Product Roadmap & Development

- Fab bundles still on track for near-term release
- Improved communication planned for product rollouts

  - Previous issues with delayed dashboard creation (3-month lag on banner tracking)
  - Goal to provide early visibility for marketing preparation
- Marketing performance team status unclear

  - Kim’s previous responsibilities likely shifting to Nick
  - Need lighter-touch, self-serve analytics vs. queue-based requests
- Quixel content consolidation planned

  - Moving from bi-weekly releases to massive 4,000+ asset drops
  - Exploring better packaging/sales approach with biz dev


### UE AI & Creator Tools Strategy

- UE AI timeline: optimistically late 2026, more likely with UE 5.9 or as plugin for 5.8
- April 9 UE monthly meeting with Tim focusing on AI capabilities

  - Will show incremental units rather than revenue/cost totals
  - Contractual rate-based projections for usage metrics
- Creator tooling organizational structure unclear

  - Eugene potentially GM role for AI-focused creator tools under Seb
  - All current tools appear AI-based, no standard engineering tools visible
- Need direct conversation with Eugene to clarify structure and implications


### Action Items

- Nick: Get marketing team status update and support structure clarity
- Avi: Connect with Stacy Coldridge regarding paid marketing leadership gap
- Team: Schedule follow-up meeting to review full budget analysis and usage
- Darsh: Share third-party monetization analysis with Avi and team
- Nick: Send preview materials ahead of April 9 UE monthly meeting
- Team: Coordinate with Eugene on organizational structure and reporting lines

Chat with meeting transcript: [https://notes.granola.ai/t/47e7a544-007a-44fb-826a-d045e85e1497](https://notes.granola.ai/t/47e7a544-007a-44fb-826a-d045e85e1497)

## Transcript

**system**: As of now leads e-com.

**system**: AWS us and fab.

**system**: I does he also cover I talked in like two days ago and he.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**system**: Ryan Dixon if I if that's correct I think he also is supposed to cover like EAS or like account services kws and all of that so okay.

**microphone**: You should just dog a little bit, see how they actually.

**system**: But you know.

**system**: We worked with each other for a long time so I don't expect between our working relationship anything to change Eugene has moved under submiglio.

**microphone**: I mean, that's also.

**microphone**: A first tour. Just because. Yeah, like, they have, like, and we have basically decided to.

**system**: Product team so we'll you know you'll be dealing with more of these mug than Eugene going forward.

**system**: You know some of the things that we've been successfully doing we are going to continue doing some of the things we'll reevaluate and see what what we need to do there like you know next month is around the corner so next week I'll come to you and ask you to help me with the status email and things as such.

**microphone**: Bring up your head. It's like, literally in the trump of, like, you know,

**microphone**: Percentage of.

**microphone**: Yeah, that's what I would think about shepherds.

**system**: Same one thing I'm trying to identify now and figure out the next steps is Guillermo who led fab paid marketing has been let go so far paid marketing is right now leaderless and we have paid marketing running but there is no person that I could identify to go to top two.

**microphone**: And if you ever get one.

**microphone**: In the doodle solutions, so I feel like I was sold here at the same time. Like, it's so much better.

**microphone**: Or something.

**microphone**: I also want one, but there's something.

**system**: Yeah Stacy coldridge right yeah that's that's who we need to talk to Kim swindle also got like so there's there's a big there's a big hole in the in the marketing side across the company I would assume.

**microphone**: Like, a little fluffy baby.

**system**: So.

**system**: We'll need to get it we'll need to get it figured out over over time also Abby I'm not sure.

**microphone**: It's a previous.

**system**: If.

**system**: You're aware but I also got moved I'm under Kyle Billings now on the egf side doing some type of like product and strategy work that is still TBD on the exact role definition as things get worked out.

**microphone**: Exactly. Yeah, it was. It was really hard. Like, she almost followed. We went there and hit the feeling. We actually want things to look into. This isn't like just wave it, like, no, they have, like, a little area.

**system**: But for you supporting the marketplace one of the marketplaces I'm just kidding yeah that is one of the marketplaces but yes I need to figure out what that what that means for me and like.

**system**: But in the interim period as that all shakes out I can definitely still support and if there is no one there on the marketing side.

**microphone**: He was like, yeah, you know, like, they were just, like, mind dog super on the root of air.

**system**: I can I can definitely assist.

**system**: I think this is also probably an opportunity for us to revisit paid marketing in general and think through like what is our strategy there and what do we want to do given that it's always been even once we like improve things it's always been sort of like so so results so maybe this is the chance to think about like.

**microphone**: Oh, okay. I was like.

**microphone**: Like, I see dogs. No, like a donut.

**microphone**: Just like. Like on the road.

**microphone**: On the streets. The only one playing there.

**system**: If we want to do something fundamentally different or do we want to turn it back on as it was and sort of keep the lights on?

**microphone**: They, like, sent him back, I'm like,

**microphone**: So, yeah, I thought, can you take your day? But I just.

**system**: I don't think we have that option anymore. I think it's fun I think we fundamentally need to revisit things because Bill was.

**microphone**: See what you're going to do on your blade zone if you just.

**system**: Pretty clear to me last week that we need to save money everywhere we can.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: Multiple points. So I was like, okay.

**system**: And you know not invest in things that don't work and lots of lots of things there. I think we we can optimize and look at from slightly fresher perspective.

**microphone**: Then they said, I don't think I've learned, like, literally, like, if you put them die by his eye, they just bought.

**system**: So I'll talk to you Stacy and come back. Avi did you get any specific specificities when you talked to Bill when he said things like oh we should look for you know budget kind of to slash from him on I'm still waiting from him to let me know about my publishing budget.

**microphone**: Them to war, and they're just.

**microphone**: Oh, they're all just, like, pumping the door.

**system**: Because proposed was 1 million and last I talked to him few weeks ago he was like I'm going to try to keep you at half at least and then I have not heard anything and now he's traveling.

**microphone**: Or something.

**microphone**: They do. They do. I don't want to bring them. They didn't bother.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**system**: So I have Ryan Dixon now as a buffer so I'm going to have him figure that out for me.

**system**: You have the one for 400k was free and then one was approved that was approved yeah so that's that's that that has there is no and also like LT limited time free drives bi-weekly engagement that that we cannot replace with anything else so that's something we cannot compromise on.

**system**: But the publishing slash minimum guarantee budget that was proposed as you Darsh and Jason remember at one mil bill said I'm going to try to keep you at least at half so 500k.

**system**: So now I'm trying to see if that half is actually at play or if considering last two weeks and things that are at play here if that's decimated further or if it's gone completely that I don't know yet so I'm trying to how do you feel about 500k do you feel like that's too little for you to use.

**system**: It's small for sure Matt we've I feel like we.

**system**: We have proven that with.

**system**: These investments we can start recouping quick and actually works so I've seen you give out like 20k checks and those have like recouped pretty well and they're good content like I don't know.

**system**: Like the plan is to continue doing some of that with these 500k and not go big like 200k deals or 6.2 million deals like git brush Darsh has put some like done some analysis that is really good Darsh if you could just shed share with Alvi and Shah like yeah and Shashah around like potentially strategy around this.

**microphone**: Yep.

**microphone**: Yep.

**system**: Okay.

**microphone**: For sure.

**system**: Yep.

**system**: So another topic I wanted to cover with you all is I've been trying to chase.

**system**: Mark and PA in terms of what does this mean for the product roadmap for fab and what's happening.

**system**: In immediate feature.

**system**: They are still picking up the pieces understandably so.

**system**: But my understanding is that we are still on track with fab bundles coming out shortly and then going forward as I will get way more involved is my hope with product planning my hope is to keep you folks.

**system**: Appraised on what's happening on the product roadmap what's being released.

**system**: Much.

**system**: Much closer than what was happening before because I feel like a lot of stuff was done in vacuum and in silos and then things would roll and we would not track it and we would not be able to.

**system**: Build a dashboard for things that were as easy as like we launched the banners on the website and then three months after semi remember this three months after we got Kim to build a dashboard to track the binary performance right because we did not tell Kim on time and then it was competing with other stuff so I want to avoid that as much as possible.

**system**: Nick and try to give you a visibility into what's happening as soon as possible as early as possible so we can be prepared for product rollouts yes that's a that's a question.

**system**: For other country for Nick there too which is just like I'm assuming no.

**system**: But it would be it would be great if you could keep us updated as you learn more on just like what is the future state of marketing and like web based reporting is this going to come up on every product I was already seeing this on EGS when I was looking around a little bit so yeah we don't have like CPM that great well we're not we're not going to I don't think we'll have that ever this be given our policies.

**system**: But I would say there is some frustrations in the past with like how difficult it was to get that data and I know that's difficult job because of the restrictions.

**system**: But I feel like we should do Avi's point around like taking three months to get to get any type of visibility stood up.

**system**: Something I think the ideal solution would be something lighter touch like we don't need a ton of data.

**system**: We just need like.

**system**: Basically visibility, the stuff that we can track like clicks. But later lighter touch insights and more accessible.

**system**: That would be that would be I think the win if we could.

**system**: Like if you could self serve some of that stuff versus like having it to need to go through a queue.

**system**: Yeah the truth is like I just don't know the state of that I'm talking with some a little later today.

**system**: Just to see what she's pieced together over the last.

**system**: Week or two.

**system**: I assume that some of like Kim's previous ownership is going to fall into my lap out of a lack of other places for it to fall.

**system**: But I personally just have no idea right now.

**system**: Do you know if there's still a marketing performance team? I do not.

**system**: Like I'm going to try and get this info a little later today.

**system**: I will say as a heads up.

**system**: That with always also not being at the company anymore, I'm going to have a lot of different contexts on my plate going forward.

**system**: So I will do my best to make that prioritization very public between those things.

**system**: Just because it's going to be.

**system**: Like UE like metahuman reality scan like the remnants of like products that are getting sunset that are going to have requests anyway.

**system**: Is going to be still up on my priority list. I just will have to balance it with everything. So the request there is just like.

**system**: With a request the sense of urgency and priority and impact is like if it's attached to the request, it makes it a lot easier for me to.

**system**: Like stack it with everything else.

**system**: Speaking of that, I have like one tactical question. We're trying to like consolidate a bunch of slack channels.

**system**: Because we're at like one for each creator product right now, but it's all going to me anyway.

**system**: I wanted, I want to keep the fab one separate.

**system**: Still, but I want to fold the old Quixel analytics channel into fab.

**system**: I'll use that like presenting.

**system**: Up to you. I didn't think so. Yeah. And then put it in that content lives on fab anyway.

**system**: And there.

**system**: Are some developments coming on that side where, you know, we will be.

**system**: We have.

**system**: Ability to really support the cadence of lunch for quicks omega scans content that we were going down with like every two weeks and all that. There's simply no hints to do that. So we likely will be doing a big massive releases for 4,000 plus skills that are left in the queue.

**system**: And then I have to talk to biz dev folks if that's something that they can wrap and sell bit better than this biweekly releases.

**system**: But anyway, to your question, absolutely.

**system**: That's that feels right.

**system**: But yeah, I'll have more info on the marketing side hopefully later today.

**system**: And just to see what support is left over there.

**system**: Yeah, and same as you figure out.

**system**: Your role.

**system**: And what's happening on your side. I would assume that Kyle is cool with you.

**system**: Staying on fab and helping here and there.

**system**: Territorial.

**system**: We'll see. We'll see.

**system**: A few like Darsh is always a resource regardless, but yeah, sorry Sam. Appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, well, I think for right now I can definitely, I can definitely, I can definitely be a resource.

**system**: I think going forward, it might be, it might be more difficult. Ultimately though, I think.

**system**: Like everything here is rolling up to bill.

**system**: So yeah, it's one big team.

**system**: One big team. So if you need help, it's going to, it's going to go to bill and he'll probably look to me because they're just looking around now, there just really aren't that many people to flex into.

**system**: These types of figure out things like do we continue doing this monthly.

**system**: Meetings with execs? I assume no.

**system**: Because maybe because we're quarterly. Yeah, maybe becomes a little bit more. Carter would be great.

**system**: Yeah, more async as well. But you know, you've been tremendous help when it comes to like telling the narrative. So I still would appreciate you being part of telling that story.

**system**: But yeah, and if, I mean, again.

**system**: Hijace, I think again like, you know, as you figure out the things on your side, just let us know.

**system**: Yeah, I will. It's still, it's still a black box to me.

**system**: Kyle understandably is swamped with now inheriting a bunch of people and teams. And he has a clear conception yet.

**microphone**: Oh, okay.

**microphone**: It's got.

**microphone**: A v.

**microphone**: What.

**microphone**: You see in the.

**microphone**: Video.

**microphone**: Like.

**microphone**: Ue.

**microphone**: But then you.

**microphone**: Think about.

**microphone**: The.

**microphone**: Deck.

**microphone**: And.

**microphone**: The balance.

**microphone**: Are giving money.

**microphone**: The 9.

**microphone**: 0 till.

**microphone**: 9.

**microphone**: 0 different.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: That's gonna be.

**microphone**: Like.

**microphone**: Up getting a.

**microphone**: Sense.

**microphone**: Of what they are.

**microphone**: Thinking.

**microphone**: Like, is it different than just AI?

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: Like, it goes beyond, like, EDA.

**microphone**: They think of EDA as one product.

**microphone**: I can as another product. I thought it's all one product.

**microphone**: No, that's like four different keeps telling me it's one product.

**microphone**: A different sound, unfortunately.

**microphone**: Not any of the two in this room.

**microphone**: I don't understand. It's got to be the same thing.

**microphone**: Like, unless they.

**microphone**: Yeah. So this is what, like, this is all you do. It's all one thing.

**microphone**: Yeah. They're not thinking of it as, like, one thing. Yeah, but, like, the headers, you and you being. This whole thing is called. This is just tool coloring. They just. They're not very consistent with the name. They name it. Should be up here. You told calling Orchestra and semantics. So all part of EDA.

**microphone**: Yeah, I guess that's the imaging.

**microphone**: Yeah, that's still easy. They're calling.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: I don't know.

**microphone**: But if he owns all of EDA, are you saying parent? Yeah. And this might.

**microphone**: Like, need to be a call center or something.

**microphone**: Like.

**microphone**: Why?

**microphone**: You mean a bu or you mean a cost center?

**microphone**: I took the line, the cost line.

**microphone**: Is it cost as in creator tooling?

**microphone**: Overall?

**microphone**: And, like, using is going to be leading that.

**microphone**: With.

**microphone**: Seb and he's basically gonna be the DRI for creator tooling.

**microphone**: So maybe.

**microphone**: He's gonna be the guy who managers of the team that builds out the tools.

**microphone**: Yeah, I like. I don't know exactly how they're, like, thinking about it internally.

**microphone**: But, like, that's the feel I'm getting from this.

**microphone**: This doesn't. But we should, like, talk to him about it.

**microphone**: All of this is AI based.

**microphone**: None of this is non-AI.

**microphone**: At.

**microphone**: All.

**microphone**: I don't see any standard.

**microphone**: Tools, engineers in here.

**microphone**: So I don't think it goes beyond.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: Do you feel like it shouldn't be a.

**microphone**: Lot of the cost sit in, like, udev or online wherever you're getting it from?

**microphone**: Like.

**microphone**: My. My hunch is that eugenics is gonna be more focused on, like, the development side and, like, the. What is he gonna manage the whole.

**microphone**: Or yours still?

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: He's gonna be responsible for the people on AI.

**microphone**: I think so.

**microphone**: Because he's working with sep.

**microphone**: Right?

**microphone**: I mean, I don't know.

**microphone**: We can't just guess.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: Yeah. He's reporting to.

**microphone**: Save this.

**microphone**: He is responsible for engineering as well as.

**microphone**: The business. So he's kind of like the GM for five years or 5.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: Maybe.

**microphone**: Like, a sub B for it idea.

**microphone**: Lly.

**microphone**: Yeah, maybe like a sub B with him being the GM.

**microphone**: Yes.

**microphone**: That's what they like. We should just. They need to tell us that. Yeah.

**microphone**: It's true. We're not going to go create something and change.

**microphone**: Yeah, I think we should, like.

**microphone**: Just.

**microphone**: Talk to him about.

**microphone**: That.

**microphone**: Like the implication. Yeah. Some questions he just doesn't respond. Yeah.

**microphone**: That means the structure that I had seen.

**microphone**: From two weeks ago is incorrect.

**microphone**: Maybe last week, not even two weeks ago.

**microphone**: This says he reports it to Ryan Dixon.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: I don't know. I don't know if you heard it from Eugene directly, then it's probably true.

**microphone**: But this says he goes into Ryanix.

**microphone**: And, like, Avi.

**microphone**: This is so outdated. Lattice is updated for orgs. Doesn't have the layoffs, but it has the name.

**microphone**: Of lattice.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: It has some of the layoffs, but I don't know if it's reflecting the. I think the beavers are still freaking out some of the org structure that they may not have even passed through the updates.

**microphone**: They have a deadline for this.

**microphone**: I think they said they're gonna try to get work data.

**microphone**: This week.

**microphone**: Yeah, like a lot for you, just allowing people that were laid off. They're not showing up on medicine.

**microphone**: Like, good thing to do would be, like, from top down to say, like, hey, we'll give you an answer in, like, two weeks.

**microphone**: For the structure.

**microphone**: Time out there. Right now, people are like.

**microphone**: I legit have people telling me they're not doing their job because they don't know what their job is.

**microphone**: My whole team, I don't know what I'm doing.

**microphone**: Anymore.

**microphone**: That's not. This one's black.

**microphone**: Hair.

**microphone**: Did Randy have any deal stuff after you? I don't know. I have something in that. Yeah, I will.

**microphone**: Send him. I haven't even gone through the.

**microphone**: Land, Alex.

**microphone**: And stuff.

**microphone**: But I don't know. Okay.

**microphone**: Yeah, really just for egs. The meeting will call on Friday, and then the EGP. I think the.

**microphone**: The two things are.

**microphone**: Trying to figure out the timing that's being once we do the budget increase.

**microphone**: For game three.

**microphone**: I think that they came for project robot is that we're not going to increase anything. But this year, but I I'm trying to push the team on, like, we should really try to figure out what that looks like to get the money back from. Was it the phone in two? Yeah. So I'm. So we have a meeting with the legal team already set up on Thursday.

**microphone**: That I'm going to try to see, you know, what the timing would that.

**microphone**: But I think why is the game not.

**microphone**: What happened to that game?

**microphone**: They're just going to launch on steam, man. Oh, okay. So they.

**microphone**: Re not same also, so they should be able to pay us. Yeah. I mean, if I'm being transparent, they're kind of shady. This studio, which is CI games. Yeah. So that's why, like, even though Nico and Steve were saying, like, you know, by the end of this year, Jason are kind of not as optimistic that I don't think there's just going to be, like, a queen, like, okay, they're going to pay his 14 million back in the next few months. But it is also launching on EGS.

**microphone**: Correct. So, I mean, could we just keep 100% until we.

**microphone**: I mean, so the thing is, the.

**microphone**: D.

**microphone**: They're being very kind of.

**microphone**: They're not being the greatest partners that they've, like, publicly gone out and saying, yeah, they want to get out of this deal.

**microphone**: Essentially. Like, they might not even publish on ETS. So they. They already set up for egg. It's more of like they see that steam is going to get better.

**microphone**: This is also cash we've already given out. Yeah, that's a problem. You just need to get back. Yeah. So can we at least not. We should never give them a revenue share if they owe us money. Right, right.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: Which, like, they were already. We already had the right to regroup. I mean, we probably don't get the.

**microphone**: Whole amount.

**microphone**: On.

**microphone**: The GS.

**microphone**: But.

**microphone**: So I think part of it is having the competition with band from legal to figure out how do we one structure the term into if we can expedite the process so they're just not, you know, getting interest free loan from us.

**microphone**: We should send bill an update by Friday as well. Yeah. On that bus or get bill and intro, like with the.

**microphone**: The stuff he's looking for, like prior years of financials. But what he wants the egp, you know, first is game three. Like the comps. Why are we giving them more money? And then the last one is the budget. Like, I feel like we didn't get to, like, the right numbers on the budget, like, how much actually you use.

**microphone**: The right view.

**microphone**: Y'all can pull that together by far, aren't they? But, yeah, it's probably even just scheduling another, like, meeting with them to go through. Here's the full piano. Here's what it looks like. Yeah. Yeah. It was like that. No fault of our teams, obviously, but, yeah, it was just like diving right into, like, a very specific details and.

**microphone**: No 30 minutes before the call. Like, we pinged an eco. We're like, what content do you want to show? Like, it's like, well, this, like, five minutes. And he's like, so, Bill, like, what do you want your strategy to be or something?

**microphone**: I'm like, don't you forget to, like, tell him something about the business. Yeah, I think there's also a lot of confusion.

**microphone**: Like, honestly, just among, like, Nico, Kyle.

**microphone**: Where it's just like, nobody knows what's going on. Yeah.

**microphone**: Maybe they assume.

**microphone**: He's. Steve did say, like, I just need to understand the business.

**microphone**: But anyway.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: Well, we will support them. However,

**microphone**: We just spoke to the fab team. Eugene's fully off of it. It's now run by a guy named Avi, who is the publishing guy who did the 2p content.

**microphone**: Yeah, most of his team is gone.

**microphone**: So. And Eugene is now UE AI. It seems like really figure out who he reports to. Darsh says he might report the set now directly, but on this org structure I saw before was like ride. So I don't know. Ran dixon would mean he's more on the business side.

**microphone**: Under sep, he would be product. So we'll see.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: And then we'll talk to him this week.

**microphone**: On Thursday about, like, there's an April 9 UE monthly that's coming up with Tim, and I'm assuming, like, they want to talk about AI stuff. In so far, we're not showing anything for Revenue or cost as a whole, but it's more like incremental units, which we've had conversations, like talking to the bond, like, hey, what could you assume based on our contractual rates?

**microphone**: Like.

**microphone**: Person, like, her prompt, like, how much heavy sentence it is.

**microphone**: It's just going to show stuff like that. So we'll send each preview with you ahead of that meeting, too. Okay.

**microphone**: And Bill had previously told me the timing of UVAI was if we're optimistic, it would be in 2026, but it'd be the very end. Like, he didn't seem common. So what I was told, insofar, the meetings have been like, okay, 5 8 is the last push. And 5 8 doesn't have AI.

**microphone**: And so 5a comes out in the summer. That's the idea. That's what Marcus said. Right. But, like, we might do an offshoot of 59, depending on what they have. And I think that five nine, like, if we do it, it will be AI. So that would be the form. Okay, so that's interesting. Yeah. I hadn't really thought about that, like, in the context of Marcus's, like, okay, we're done with dot releases.

**microphone**: Yeah, but that doesn't mean we're not going to do anything. But, like, the AI seems like it would be a really big deal that that would be another problem. I prefer if they just wait.

**microphone**: Longer. I have a feeling they might release it as a plugin and beat up. Yeah. And then probably launch the flagship thing with uv6.

**microphone**: That could be good.

**microphone**: But, like, next year is not even uv6. It's like if they launch anything for ue6, it will be like a beta next year.

**microphone**: On the front end side is going to try to work with some of the key stakeholders after the warship to see, like, where they grow now is sitting, like, what changes are being made.

**microphone**: I've Shah with Matt strokia, and it sounds like some of the aquarium smart stuff. Whoops. Now we go into 20 seconds. So I think this year in May, they still want to have, like, a row that will show you, like, to say we have, like, bestsellers as of today. They want to put in, like, Shah content for you. So technically, it's already in the Shah, but the real, oh, actually really likes Taylor Swift. We'll show.

**microphone**: Up at the top now, things like that.

**microphone**: They're things that they were working towards. That's not smart.

**microphone**: That's just something.

**microphone**: Else. It's part of the smart shop. That's like the first, like, baby step is, like, show confidential threats to the player. Okay. The next step is show content that only you can see for original content. So maybe you see the renegade Raider outfit and shop that I don't on that given day because we think that you really like this if anything. So just like on my row, where, like, I, I can buy it at Jason can't. You can buy it with Jason can. Like, I could gift it to Jason.

**microphone**: And then the next step beyond that would probably try and work with getting IP to that same bucket as well, and then also exclusive pricing. So you see it for eight dollars, Jason sees it for nine dollars.

**microphone**: So. But that's going to get pushed out to 2027 now. So I think they were trying to get that from ocean or we just have two different prices.

**microphone**: What do you mean? Like, if I sit for eight dollars and pieces extra nine dollars, did I see it for eight? Because it's on sale for me because. Yeah, because it's not just that, like, we had different prices. Correct.

**microphone**: Yep. Yes, that's right. So I think a lot of that they were trying to get in this year before the end of the year, it sounds like some of that's not ready to transition to, like, post Depot. Okay. In terms of, like, the premium shops, it's more of like the feel, like the UI and things like that. I think most of those things are still landing this year, with the exception of, I don't know if they'll have, like, a 3D camera stuff they were trying to work on.

**microphone**: But they'll help, like, do, like, kind of title breaking Pizzazz and all you have to do some things. I think they're still going to happen this year. Okay.

**microphone**: And then.

**microphone**: Saying, you guys should probably talk about a little bit the third party analysis you're working on. So at a high level, obviously dig into, like, Aura, like, what's making monetization more successful on certain islands versus others and, like, where are those trades? It's still work in progress, but maybe you can talk to maybe a few of the early findings that are. Yeah. Good old buddy Claude helped me do some data bricks for him to get, like, some offer level data and analyze that and also, like, you know, just overall Island tarp DAO level data.

**microphone**: And, like, I think one of the biggest, like, a really big takeaway, which is kind of common sense, but, like, it helps to see the numbers is that just.

**microphone**: Like the, the way that the gameplay loop is structured, if it doesn't incorporate monetization, like, they just don't monetize as well. And that largely pertains to, like, the shooters and the build fighting, like, a ton of our, like, top played Islands, which are, like, kind of like 1v1 red versus blue, Etc. Like, some of those have, like, monetization isn't really a core part of that game.

**microphone**: And they have, like, offers where you can permanently unlock this one cool gun, but that doesn't keep someone coming back and, like, spending more.

**microphone**: And so those 10, like, on an orc dial basis and even on a revenue per hour basis to be much lower than, like, tycoons. So, like, our tycoons are monetizing really, really well.

**microphone**: Monetization metric in tycoons. Like, what, how does it interact with the gameplay?

**microphone**: Or. Well, so it's more of, like, a candy crush and then, like, a boost. To do more stuff or, like, unlock, like, if you died. I don't know. Like, if I hit five lives in a day, it's kind of like one of them, like, escapes tsunami for granola or whatever. Like, they're really popular offer is, like, it's only 50 V bucks, and it's just like a revive. So, like, people will buy those over and over again in one session. But why do you need to do that if you die?

**microphone**: Are you a death of the day? I honestly haven't played it. Maybe there's, like, a waiting period or something. Or maybe. Yeah, maybe you're dead for the day, but a lot of it, too. Like, I mean, so the brain rocks. It's like, steal the brain rots. Like, half of their Revenue comes from one offer, which surprises me. And it's just a skip machine cool down. It's like when you put stuff into the brain raw machine to, like, create new, fancy or brain rods or whatever, there's, like, a cool down period where the machine has to wait, like, an hour to actually spit out the thing.

**microphone**: Or the, you know, the thing with the mutation or the leveled up brain rot, whatever. And so people pay. I don't know how much weight is. It's a lot of money just to skip the hour long cooldown period.

**microphone**: I guess.

**microphone**: Like.

**microphone**: Yeah, that's the only thing I like. I don't play it anymore, but you like it. You have to wait for your garden to grow, but you could, like, you know, pay for some specific grows faster. It's like that. When people do the brain, that's correct them. You collect them and they earn you have a lot of mouth or something. Your friends can see all the house that they're making money. Okay. And then other people, like, come and check out. You can see, like, through, like, the gate, like, oh, they got the feeling cool one. And then they try to steal it. No, I don't have brain.

**microphone**: On.

**microphone**: Are they still free ones? Yeah. Yeah. So, like, and, I mean, like, you could. Yeah, you can. Yeah. So you can, you know, buy them with the brain wraps that are you more money sitting in your little base or whatever. Some other interesting things or looking kind of more specifically at the offers. I Islands that had certain offers marked as.

**microphone**: Like, supplying a paid random item.

**microphone**: On average, those have an arp dial that's like 3.3 times higher.

**microphone**: Than the non paid random item arc DA. Now, that's not the case for every island. Like, there's some exceptions, which I guess makes sense because you have to keep trying the thing you really wanted.

**microphone**: So those do really, really well.

**microphone**: One of the. So in terms of, like, having high arc, though, like, islands that monetize really, really well, one of the most, like, correlated factors is purchases per payer. So, like, if someone buy, like, even more important than pair conversion, like, it's more important that you get an existing payer to buy more times than it is to convert, like, a regular player to a pair.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: So, like, purchases per, like, of the top 50 islands by life to date Revenue, like the 10 with the highest worked out, like, top 10 opt out of the top 50 Revenue earners.

**microphone**: Average, like two purchases for daily payer and the lowest an average, like 1.4. And so, like, it's. That was, like, a pretty bright line in the data.

**microphone**: Too, which I guess if I think about why the things are priced so low, like 50 V bucks, is that the lowest price, I think. And so if I, like, if I just buy one thing that's super cheap.

**microphone**: Well, surprisingly, actually, I did have Claude go through and, like, kind of bucket all of these offers, too, by, like, tier of, like. Yeah. Budget versus low versus mid versus hot, like premium and then high. And let's. Where's my. Yeah, that's recondition payout team, AKA release party one.

**microphone**: He, one of his things that when I asked him last week, like, tell me the top three things that you think are wrong.

**microphone**: With Aurora. Like, why is it not working and what needs to happen? And so one of the things that he said was that people are pricing. Advert Adam say this, too, that people are pricing things too low. So we need to teach them how much they should be charging. So I'm curious to see what says. Yeah. So it was. Claude came back with.

**microphone**: I don't remember, I think. So premium offers.

**microphone**: Were.

**microphone**: Where's that pivot table?

**microphone**: So of it, I just kind of limited my analysis to, like, the top 50 islands by, like, life to date revenue. So the top 50 earners, and I think that was around, like, 43,000 ish dollars would be the conversion. And those that are in the premium tier, which was 800 to 2000 V bucks, like the number of average purchases per payer is higher than below in the mid tier. So I think low was like 100 to.

**microphone**: 400 than maybe mid was 400 to 800 or something.

**microphone**: But premium, like, was a shockingly very polite, a attire dollars, and it had the most, like, purchases or one of the most purchases per share. Obviously, the budget ones, which was, like, less than 100, like, was a little higher, but premium was really up there. And even the high ones. So, like, people are willing more than I would have expected to spend, like, a significant amount of ebucks on one thing in these islands and I guess they value they must. So those are your dedicated. Like, it's not different, I guess, in the first party. I think you were dedicated people that really value whatever it is that you're selling and are willing to spend that much price sometimes price versus other gachas, they're like 10, 20 to 30 for a 10 pull, like 10 roll. So that's like, you know, on flats, like topic EGS games, they're like a hundred dollars per month.

**microphone**: Per payer.

**microphone**: Yeah. So, like, that's, that's where you need to steer.

**microphone**: Yeah. It's like impact gameplay and randomization. The more it impacts the input cameraization is higher. So it's like, we're an impact game play, and it's random. The whales are going to spend anyways, so might as well just make them spend more.

**microphone**: Yeah, I think I did a little, like, graph of the islands by.

**microphone**: Like, the top five ordo islands, then number six through ten, 11 through 25. And, like, what of their revenue was made up by each, like, a budget tier and the top performing Islands had, like, the top five had 28 in the high tier and 30 in the or 28 in the premium tier, 30 in the mid tier, like, more in those higher dollar buckets than other ones. Whereas the lower performing arbit islands across the board, like, had much less Revenue coming from those premium and high tiers.

**microphone**: Okay, I'm thinking about this with, like, payout conversation and the formula change. And so this is actually, like, in my thing, I was just typing. I really have to get this message over to me and, like, I haven't gotten it out. I doubt you guys's stuff. But anyway.

**microphone**: I'm trying to explain to him what Louie's pitch is. He keeps going on vacation, and I'm just trying to help him understand what's happening. So he feels like you can go into a vacation.

**microphone**: I don't know, like, when things are going to come up.

**microphone**: He's working on figuring out sabbatical, so I don't think he knows exactly when, but I think it's like, I think he's going to be gone a lot of the month of April, so I'm trying to figure out what does he need to know, want to know, how does he want to receive information during this time period. But I'm trying to think about the engagement payout proposal and what I want him to understand about that.

**microphone**: And so I'm thinking about the stuff that you were just saying, and I know that it's two different things, a reward versus engagement payout.

**microphone**: But my, like, as I put my thoughts on paper about the engagement payout formula change and why I didn't think it was a good, I'm trying to decide, did I not think it was a good proposal? Because I think it was about the execution for me. But then I am going back to the point about retention. So, like, if the retention metric is now less important, and that helps variety, that means variety is not retentive. And so.

**microphone**: Then the dollars thing, I missed the beginning. Like, I don't know what the dollars piece is, but something about the dollar spent were mattering more. You said that, like, exec.

**microphone**: S.

**microphone**: Brought up the point that they didn't like how much money we were paying toward, like, of the engagement payout towards these, like, build fighting islands that aren't really going to ecosystems. So, like, part of it is just they want to show the dollars. But, like, I don't think. I think that all that's going to happen in this example is you are going to ship the dollars. But, like, why do you want to do that? It's because you want to grow a variety of content and you want new users to come. And without the proper external messaging that we care about variety and we are making sure that those people get paid in the engagement payout.

**microphone**: It's not going to achieve the behaviors. All that's going to happen is all those battle royale people are going to get super. And they're going to post it there and go to get a bunch of bad publicity because of that. And so, like, I don't like, they have to have a communication plan that accompanies this. But when I was really focused on is, like, is, does it actually make sense that you're removing this retention metric or reducing it? Is that actually good for the ecosystem? And then I was like, is there a way? It's retention for that specific Island.

**microphone**: Right? It could be publisher based Creator base. Okay. There was that, that was in one of the options. When I started thinking about, is there a way that it could be like ecosystem? Like, we don't want to come and play.

**microphone**: If I brought you in and then you, you play my island for a while, but then you go play Alex in the mirrors. Like, that's still good for epic. Like, we just want people in the ecosystem. Like, is there a way that the ecosystem.

**microphone**: I don't know. Like, you're trying to work. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

**microphone**: Like, when they, I mean, it used to be more a bigger part of the payout formula, I feel like, was like, did you bring in a new user or something? Yeah. I feel like they position has gone back and forth, but we realize that they're not really in control. Like, they weren't in control of the ability to, like, do user acquisition because you couldn't direct link. And it was just too hard. People would fake it with, you know,

**microphone**: But anyway, I was trying to think about all the stuff you were just saying about the dollars. Like, is there something about the dollars? Because now it's kind of feeling like the dollars become more important also, which, what was the proposal K? Like, I don't know how you have a through chains. They're doing different thresholds on how much you've spent in the ecosystem at all, like, throughout your lifetime and or the time period which you spent it. So should we look at, you spent ten dollars in the last month?

**microphone**: Or ten dollars in the last two months or three months? And so it's like changing that time horizon of when you made that, that spend purchase. Okay.

**microphone**: I see.

**microphone**: Because right now it's if you ever spent even a penny ever in the history before camping. Okay.

**microphone**: But, like, I mean, also, like, I think part of it is it might not necessarily be as much, like, variety doesn't retain as well. It could also just be like, like, I would be kind of curious their, their option they present, like, option K, where it changes the look back period and increases the, like, weight of playtime surrounding purchases. Like, what's the disaggregation of that? Because I feel like because, like, tycoon and writing monetized so much better.

**microphone**: Like, naturally, especially, like, as we move forward with Aurora, like in the, in the figures he had presented, they only had January's data. So, like, what happens when we go and, like, add February, March to that?

**microphone**: Like, is this playtime starting purchases already a lot higher for variety because they monetize better? Yeah, that's true. Like, my sport of money in that game, I'm more likely that's where I'm gonna go back. Yeah. Like, you want to buy a brain rod? You're gonna go top up your bee bucks so you can go buy brick.

**microphone**: S.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: This is very interesting.

**microphone**: I think this is helpful. So how do we share some of these insights with, I guess it's just logie? We're working on making it into a deck. Okay. Yeah, I think that would be good.

**microphone**: And then, yeah, he's talked a lot about the education stuff that we need to do.

**microphone**: Education. So maybe I kind of liked the idea he brought up of, like, a boosted pool, like, or I think it was maybe it was, it was Johnny that mentioned it, but, like, as a way of.

**microphone**: Publicizing more, like, our tools improvements and, like, hey, go try this, you know, to encourage them.

**microphone**: I feel like sometimes we don't always do a great job of saying, like, here are the new tools that you can, like, encouraging people to actually use them. Yeah, I agree. And I think that's the thing that is, I know the payout is a black box. That's how it works, which is why we will get mad publicity if the people that are making the most today just suddenly start making 30 less. Like, they're going to be vocal about it. But if there's a way that we can highlight, these are the things that we care about, and we want to make that known. I think the problem, like, one of the original ideas was the boosting based on variety, like, tell people, like, variety is going to be boosted for the next three months or whatever it is, but it takes time to build a good island.

**microphone**: So, like, am I motivated if the boost is right now?

**microphone**: In, you think, for the month of April, like, and I'm going to build it. I'm actually going to build a good island.

**microphone**: I probably don't launch it in time to benefit from your heads up, right?

**microphone**: Yeah. Yeah. Like, you almost need. Yeah. Three months from now, we're going to change it. So over the next three months, please build something. It's a 12 month road map at the start of the year. Okay. This is our season. We got to stick to it.

**microphone**: I'm good for epic. No, I've been working on a plane.

**microphone**: That you stick.

**microphone**: To.

**microphone**: Okay, well, that's really good. Thank you. I think that will be helpful to see the materials, too.

**microphone**: Very interesting.

**microphone**: Lego friends that we might change the formula.

**microphone**: Again.

**microphone**: They still trying to figure out what the lasting us to explain that one.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: Do you explain it to the metal or just say, like, it's a black box?

**microphone**: We hide behind, like, the legalities of not being able to explain to them because we have to treat every crater the same. So we explained, like, oh, exactly how the ins and outs of the formula work. We have to explain to everyone. That's nice.

**microphone**: Yeah. But sometimes, like last time, what, what did we do? We change. We increase. We, I think we, didn't we increase the play tension versus variable? Yeah.

**microphone**: We did that. And then did we do something to retention, too? I don't know. Whatever it was, I remember saying, like, oh, like, this is the chain people that have this will get more and, like, they should have inferred that that meant less for them because they, whatever resented them, they did not.

**microphone**: Achieve.

**microphone**: Whatever that was.

**microphone**: Okay.

**microphone**: Well, thank you, everyone. A lot going on. Appreciate it.

**microphone**: I'm going to go back to my desk right now, and we'll get your commercial finance and the updates, and I'll put something in my message to Randy.