---
categories:
  - "[[Meetings]]"
type: []
date: 2026-07-21
org:
loc:
people:
  - "[[Darsh Shah]]"
topics: []
granola_id: 9caeac89-af34-43ab-881a-cf6057ca8b63
source: granola
---

# Content health, user acquisition, and genre growth strategy
## Notes

## Summary

### Third-Party Engagement Overview

- MAU up 3.7% MoM, but down 12% YoY
- Hours mix shifted: Akita-driven spike last month diluted back to shooter-led behavior
- User base heavily skewed toward returning users: ~8x new users

  - Third party functions primarily as a reacquisition engine, not new user acquisition
  - Paradigm shift needed: must find ways to bring net-new users in via third party
- May had one extra day vs. June, so MoM declines are closer to flat on a per-day basis


### New User Acquisition and Virality Signal

- Shooters still dominate raw new user volume, but viral/meme content over-indexes on acquisition efficiency

  - Efficiency = new-to-Fortnite users as a share of total users in that genre
  - Viral cohort shows ~20% efficiency vs. genre average
  - Ratio held even after removing Steel the Brain Rot (which represents 74% of that cohort)
- July data reinforces the signal: Chameleon hide-and-seek driving a new influx of new users
- Implication: lean harder into emerging viral trends from Steam and Roblox
- Grow a Garden flagged as a candidate; Stacy’s team already in early conversations with the developer
- Open question: do viral-entry users retain long-term?

  - No data yet; plan to add a “dirty retention” column to the analysis


### Genre Supply/Demand and Tooling Gaps

- Sim/Tycoon: highest efficiency genre, strong monetization, yet only 3.5% of supply chain

  - First time in third-party history that Shooter was not #1 in hours (last month)
- Roguelite: high efficiency on small sample; worth monitoring
- Shooter/Battle Royale: organic growth via first-party meta (training maps, BR)
- Low-efficiency genres (role-play, social) tied to tooling deficits, not lack of demand

  - Role-play/social lacks character customization; #5 on Roblox
  - Fix tooling before seeding supply chain in those genres
- Request: track correlation between new UEFN capabilities and genre hour growth

  - Adventure RPG tools (custom abilities, damage pipeline) shipping in 42.x (August)
  - Want to see if island count and hours in that genre move post-release


### IP Partnership Strategy (Mattel, Sega, WB)

- Mattel: games dev team is solid, but business team pushing hard for ongoing marketing guarantees and editorial commitments

  - Unwilling to commit to marketing guarantees on an ongoing basis
  - Hard line on demotion rights is a sticking point
  - IP assessment: Barbie has potential (strong launch, but retention risk; no cosmetic guns); Hot Wheels feasible if tooling improves; MOTU bombed at box office; Uno needs a live-ops rethink (Monopoly Go-style)
  - Concern: “Mattel” as a brand has no consumer recognition in gaming; would need to lead with individual IP, not a Mattel universe
- Sega: stronger brand recognition in gaming; Sonic + Angry Birds (Sega-owned) is a compelling combo

  - CTO discussing a second Angry Birds game; leaning further into IP program
  - Clearer path to success vs. Mattel
  - Inclination: play hardball with Mattel, prioritize Sega sequencing
- WB: deal already signed; team spun up, devs engaged; could move quickly depending on IP ownership

  - Risk: ongoing merger/reorg could disrupt progress
  - Paramount also wants a universe deal; unaware of WB signing
- Investor/comms framing: announce at Evo launch that additional universes are coming, without naming them in-product UX


### Tycoon Genre Push vs. Universe Priority

- IP program team understaffed to run three simultaneous universe launches plus a standalone genre push
- Proposed resolution: fold tycoon genre push into universe work rather than running it separately

  - Barbie game likely to be a tycoon/sim format anyway; Hot Wheels car-builder tycoon also fits
  - Hard Space Shipbreaker (accelerator title, December) already covers tycoon without direct dev cost
- RFP already sent to ~10 creators who submitted proposals and expect decisions today

  - Can push the deadline with a crafted message buying more time
  - Messaging drafted: pivot to new business priorities, flag upcoming RFPs for universe work, invite same developers to participate
  - Check if any submitted concepts map to Barbie or Hot Wheels IP
- Tycoon genre still validated: high hours, strong monetization, Droid Tycoon avg. session over 2 hours

  - Plan: run a Q4 marketing campaign around existing tycoon/sim titles, lean into mobile and international
  - Surface in-island-transaction games via discovery algorithm changes
  - Steady drumbeat of success stories rather than a funded exemplar program


### Hasbro and IP Program Evolution

- Hasbro (DD project): effectively postponed; not expected before 2028

  - Friday deadline: new contact expecting a project update; update is that the project is not moving forward
  - Veronica Justice is closest owner; original contact was Andre, who has since left
  - Plan: pitch Evo as the strategic shift, keep door open for future participation
  - No paper signed yet; frame as “strategic priorities shifting, want to bring you along”
- IP program broadly needs a dedicated workstream

  - Self-service tooling scoping ongoing but not finalized
  - Need to address economics, IP stacking rules, and scalability before next partner wave


### Next Steps

- **Pull retention data for viral-entry users**

  Add a retention column to the acquisition efficiency analysis to assess user quality from meme/viral cohorts.
- **Check analytics on lapsed users converting to first-party post-Akita**

  Testing hypothesis that timing big third-party drops before season launches can fill top-of-funnel.
- **Confirm tycoon RFP decision and message developers**

  Shelve the standalone genre push, redirect developers toward upcoming universe RFPs, and check if any concepts map to Mattel IP.
- **Track developer adoption of new UEFN capabilities against genre hour growth**

  Starting with Adventure RPG tools (custom abilities, damage pipeline) shipping in 42.x in August.
- **Message Hasbro before Friday deadline**

  Communicate DD is not a priority; introduce Evo as the strategic shift and keep the relationship warm for future participation.
- **Schedule dedicated IP program evolution meeting**

  Cover self-service scoping, economics, IP stacking rules, and scalability ahead of next partner wave.

Chat with meeting transcript: [https://notes.granola.ai/t/5a2eb040-309c-461b-bc58-585aa418a866](https://notes.granola.ai/t/5a2eb040-309c-461b-bc58-585aa418a866)

## Transcript

**system**: Content health and that's largely focused on engagement metrics. So we're kind of looking at hours now and user acquisition and how I'll kind of play a base is built up. Again, we haven't gone through these slides as a group, so if there's stuff you like, if there's stuff you don't like, please shout and then we'll get into a routine over the next couple of months.

**system**: Yeah, so I'm just going to get going into it because there's a few slides that I wanted to bring up because there's some interesting stuff going on. So yeah across here, what we're looking at is the mail numbers, the hours numbers, and then on the right here we've got the breakdown of users where they're coming from. So new users and where they're coming from.

**system**: We've then got third party versus first party. I was on the left and then the percentage of third party hours on the right. And so some of the things to kind of call out. So what we can see is first party is really having a good month in June. So this was kind of what we mentioned yesterday. But those the runner season is doing incredibly well for hours.

**system**: In the light of that Mao is still up, so 3.7% month over month, but we are still down 12% year over year.

**system**: When we get into hours, it gets a bit more interesting.

**system**: Because the makeup of where the hours were actually spent in third party this year, this year, this month shifted. So when we saw last month a lot of hours being spent in the Akita maps, we're then seeing is the dilution back into some of the previous behaviors, which was kind of a bit more shooter led. So we're going to talk about in a couple of slides about kind of a bit more of the symbiotic relationship between third party and first party that still exists, where we've got this effect of a season launch and then people playing a lot more training maps and battle royale content. So we've seen that kind of coming through in the numbers that we're seeing a couple of slides.

**system**: And then yeah, one of the things to call out is then about how the user base is made up from user acquisition and so new to fortnite is on the left new to third party.

**system**: New to third party and returning and then just returning.

**system**: And the majority of our users who are coming in are returning users. And so you can see this distribution of that being about eight times what we're seeing on new users. And so there's a lot of questions that come up about what is driving user acquisition on third party? And are we driving new users? And so I've got a couple of slides coming up shortly on that. And just to clarify, these are new users who are playing a third party game first.

**system**: Correct. Okay.

**system**: Okay. Not new users showing up fortnite playing battle royale and then playing a third party game.

**system**: Correct. That would be new to third party. Oh, sorry. Yep. Okay.

**system**: Yeah. Okay. And then a couple of caveats to call out. So these month over month numbers, they are all red, but there is a, June was may had an extra day versus June. So when you look at this at an average per day, we're actually closer to flat. But the fact that there was the extra day means that that brought the numbers down. Also, what we can see is this big kind of like hockey stick. And that isn't a representation of third party hours being down because as we can see there's the 8% up. That's just first party having a really good month.

**system**: Okay.

**system**: Cool.

**system**: So what I wanted to do was then break down what that kind of like the cohort of the new users coming into third party look like. And so what this really does is emphasize this idea that we are bringing like third party looks to exist mostly as a reacquisition engine. So a lot of our users, I mean eight times or more than.

**system**: Brand new users to the ecosystem. So yeah, we've spoken about it a few times, but generally third party content is seen as this kind of like engagement.

**system**: And that that's a paradigm we need to shift. Not that we don't want to continue to reactivate.

**system**: But we have to figure out how to get new users in through third party.

**system**: Absolutely. I think one of the things that I'm interested in here is that we did see this spike around May and the Akita islands and I'm following up on a piece of research as to can we leverage this as in like if we do see third party content as a re-acquisition and we're getting a lot of returning users. Could we actually place big releases like Akita before season releases so that we can affect to be fill top of funnel. And so I've got an ask out to analytics to see how many people of those lapsed users have then gone on to first party sims because I think that there's an interesting angle around timing of third party content if we know that this is a trend. Yeah, that would be a great insight if it's true.

**system**: That we can action on with dev and the team. Awesome.

**system**: Okay, so kind of flat year over year for new players month over month.

**system**: Rolling returning. Yeah, I mean the start of the year user acquisition is actually down for 4% but returning users are up 21. And so we're just seeing that again.

**system**: The reactivation engine. Okay. All right.

**microphone**: I don't see now.

**system**: Cool. So yeah that then what I wanted to do to dig into was well what of the user, the pure user acquisition piece. So of that 0.61 million. Where were those uses actually coming from? Because I was curious about like, well, is it IPP that's driving user acquisition? Is it.

**system**: You know, is it non core users?

**system**: Um, no, sorry non core games because if battle royale is our kind of bread and butter, then are we seeing user acquisition coming from other cohorts? And what I found was, well, I found it quite interesting.

**system**: It was looking at.

**system**: Shooters remain the majority of users on a, on a zoom basis. But what I was looking at was actually the efficiency. So I was looking at the ratio of new users versus like returning users and.

**system**: When you break out the kind of like brain rot and viral memes, you can see that the efficiency is 20%. So they effectively like over index on user acquisition.

**system**: As a ratio to their total size. So what that's saying is like new users in third party are still predominantly being driven by shooter and battle royale content. But we see this kind of like over indexing on the viral and kind of like meme cohorts.

**system**: Steal the brain. Sorry. Oh go ahead. That was my next question. What does it look like when you remove steel every now?

**system**: Okay. Yeah. So that ratio actually stayed the same when I removed still the brain rot. It does represent 74% of it. But the remaining cohort, which is again still a lot of brain rock content, but the ratio stays true. And then what I also did was have a look at july because july we're seeing a big influx of new users from the chameleon paint and seek game. And that ratio actually ending up again. So we're seeing this over index of new users from these kind of like viral pieces. And so for me that kind of reinforces that idea of us chasing down the virality titles from steam or roblox.

**system**: As we can technically say they are, although they're not meeting the same scale as shooter, they are over indexing on you.

**system**: So the efficiency, what is the what is the efficiency calculating?

**system**: The so new users over.

**system**: Returning? Yes.

**system**: Is the percentage of new to fortnite users as a total of their new users first or third party.

**system**: Returning our new to third party or returning. So those four cohorts of user acquisition.

**system**: What is the raw new to ecosystem?

**system**: Portion?

**system**: Okay.

**system**: So new to fortnite over versus.

**system**: How much they're shifting.

**system**: Or reacting. Well reactivating.

**system**: Okay.

**system**: It doesn't really matter to us if it's new to fortnite or reactive like returning returning returning to third party, not necessarily reactivating. Yeah.

**system**: I mean.

**system**: The efficiency scores are saying like these and it makes sense like viral viral games can be more efficient at driving new players.

**system**: In.

**system**: I mean.

**system**: Good.

**system**: Do we have any statistics on what the longer term retention rate is on those users?

**system**: Like if they come in on a viral meme, do they actually stay in the platform for multiple months?

**system**: Good question.

**system**: I don't have that yet, but absolutely if we take, I'm happy to dig into it. Cool efficiently that looks more and I'm looking at reality.

**system**: If I bring new pair up great.

**system**: If they don't stay, that's not great. Yeah.

**system**: So be good to look at.

**system**: Yeah, I think it comes down to the quality of user, right? We're, we're saying like, are we getting high quality users that retaining and engaging elsewhere?

**system**: Yep. So I'll just add like a dirty retention.

**system**: Column.

**system**: Do you see that as well created to.

**system**: The offering?

**system**: Of the different games we have in the 3P portfolio?

**system**: For example most of it is.

**system**: It directly rated because most of the game are shoot or bear or not at all.

**system**: Yeah, so our, so we're actually going to go on to that in the next slide in terms of hours, but it gives you an idea of like where the player base is really engaging with.

**system**: You I don't think you were able to, did you join the last meeting yesterday?

**system**: No.

**system**: We kind of looked at the split. I don't know if you have it and can flash to it real quick, Matt, but the how the new content being published breaks out by genre. Yeah, this one.

**system**: Oh, okay, cool.

**system**: It was interesting because we were we were all kind of having an awe about the simulation in tycoon.

**system**: You know kind of being relatively.

**system**: Well it's kind of flat from May to June. We kind of expected to see more stuff coming in.

**system**: But the insight there was like when we see a specific new game come out like mecca chameleon with a new.

**system**: Loop, then everyone jumps on and tries to copycat whatever the greatest in. So you see a surge in those types of games, which would in this case falls in the party in mini games.

**system**: Space.

**system**: Yeah, that's what is always hard from you and I okay user acquisition, new user retention.

**system**: If I having visual at the same time I think is useful.

**system**: Because.

**system**: When you start to think about okay why is that?

**system**: We don't get more user coming in for something different than Shooter.

**system**: Is it because of the again the proposition we have is not enough.

**system**: Or the game quality or I don't know just how do we correlate all this data together?

**system**: So.

**system**: Yeah basically I think the.

**system**: Leaving point on this slide was just really about the curiosity around like well if if that content and again it makes sense over indexes on user acquisition then how can we better lean into the trends that the emerging trends on on steam and roadblocks?

**system**: Where would something like.

**system**: Grow a garden to fall?

**system**: I was talking to stacy about this one yesterday because they called and.

**system**: They said they're starting to engage on bringing it over with they wanted to talk about like what we can help do for marketing and promotion.

**microphone**: It's kind of.

**system**: And we were debating whether or not that game would be.

**system**: Successful if we had a reason to believe it would be successful.

**system**: I'm talking to the morning, but I guess that would fall under other non core in the simulation.

**system**: Viral meme genre. You think it's viral meme?

**system**: Yeah I mean grow go garden and grow garden.

**system**: And steal a brain rot just like the initial viral hits on roadblocks.

**system**: Yeah that drove their you know 40 million peak cc okay all right yeah.

**microphone**: Like.

**system**: Cool.

**system**: Okay go ahead man next slide sorry so this is the view cut to game hours so it's showing yeah basically the genre types on the left hand side what they represent in terms of our total hours for the month and then the share change and so the kind of the key narratives that we are looking at here is that transition back away from Akita so we've obviously got the decline in.

**system**: Still the brain rot and which had a down month as well as joy tycoon I've got a title breakdown on the next slide but yeah this is just kind of showing the buckets of where they are coming from. We've then also seen that fortnite meta like let's say the training meta play where we've got the increase across battle royale and shooters so a bit of a migration in game hours back to those areas. But yeah, I think what we're the positive sign is that we're also seeing this increase in diversity across the other game genres. So we spoke about it from the supply chain perspective where we are seeing those kind of steady increases in diversity I think is reflected in the game I was here where we're seeing you know there's still smaller lot smaller by comparison but we are seeing that.

**system**: Transition.

**system**: But this view is great and something I would love to see that you know we have some analytics that shows us.

**system**: What developers start to use more. I give an example in a release weapon template not so long ago we're going to read a bit of template and we're going to leave the AI perception that we pushed on for the.

**system**: And we have an idea that tells us what developer are using and we have that burner show me the data that hey we built the blade start to be used a lot across different top pylon users.

**system**: So I would love to see do we see a direct correction that we see developer using more of this new capabilities by giving them that correlate to new genre of island being built that hopefully correlate to more hours within those different draw if we don't have that.

**system**: We are failing somewhere that we are supposed to enable more capabilities to build more stuff but we don't see players coming.

**system**: Either games are here we don't see the games being developed that are going to attract a new play.

**system**: That's a tough one because there's other factors to why developers choose to make certain game types I think our hypothesis on like you know if you're a developer in our ecosystem.

**system**: Even if we gave you a bunch of music and rhythm features you're probably not going to make the music in rhythm game because you know there's no payout on the other side because nobody's playing those games and so like I think your question is absolutely a valid one I don't want to discount like what you're asking because I think there are some scenarios where we have unlocked genres with features like the carryable device right unlocked steel like steel brain rot and tycoon style games like that. And so like that was transformative.

**system**: But I don't know if it's always as simple as like does a single feature like that there's just a lot of other factors that go into developers decision to make a game of a certain type.

**system**: I agree but that's what.

**system**: He.

**system**: Again I feel is hard because you have all this ask from developers sometimes like the people we spoke at west and stuff like that.

**system**: At your point there's so much factor about why they will decide to do stuff.

**system**: But we.

**system**: Are going.

**system**: To change our priorities based on those data.

**system**: But sometimes maybe it's not worth it because it's not because when you front those that to your point maybe they won't use this new capability because they don't feel they will have the revenue or engagement that they will have. I mean that's and that's kind of what fueled the genre growth strategy right is like for us to not just give those features, but then to also kind of have a promise on the other side of like we're going to drive awareness to your games if you make them to basically juice the potential revenue. We had talked about some other strategy. I don't know if we was on the call. We had talked about some strategies about like, you know engagement payout boosts to certain genres if we really like we could do a 5x engagement payout boost to music and rhythm if we wanted to like if we felt like music and rhythm was the thing that really needed a huge influx of new games like that there's different levers that we have. I just yeah, I don't know.

**system**: I think you'll ask though and the way I think about it is like there's the big bets and for those big bets we need to.

**system**: Have a bulletproof black dragon plan through where we can measure, we know what we want to measure, we want to be measured like a genre of all those things and then there's much support features in a way.

**system**: Where kind of a way that we can make sure that.

**system**: We talked about with bill and adam and as well as product is how we.

**system**: UFN has a lot and still a lot.

**system**: Tech driven for good reason.

**system**: Because we need to improve a lot of stuff but we will operate how to make sure we bet on the right thing.

**system**: Basically.

**system**: And we see the result of those bits and that's what sometimes is hard to see that do we see results? So one result is saying oh look developers are using it way more great.

**system**: But does that transform into engagement, politician all this stuff.

**system**: That's where I think you're right is we are to explain.

**system**: I think this venue is probably the best bet that we have like we if we get into a rhythm of being like we pick a feature that we think we're going to bet on heavily for example on monetization side we were betting on custom weapons where like we think that's going to move the needle in an advance of those you know we lay out the plan, we use these meetings to review this is the impact that it has had. I think that's that's that's the structure that we've been missing I think that decision was like instinctive right we have.

**system**: Yes shooter games what are they going to sell? They're going to sell custom weapons that's going to unlock everything and it and it and it didn't for or hasn't really played out yet.

**system**: And I think.

**system**: In retrospect if we had the right analysis like this where we understood the gaps in the content mix that are going to drive new users.

**system**: Like maybe we would have decided something differently. So that framework makes sense. We have to figure out the right way to pull it pull it together.

**system**: Maybe we start with the conversation stuff which is controversial but yeah also is a good tool to say hey maybe this not the best was it worth it or like it's not worth like let's stop pushing it and talking about it evolving it like some of those things.

**system**: Okay.

**system**: Cool so yes to summarize what the hours stuff is is like we've got sim and tycoon which despite a drop is still is that the sorry to interrupt Matt is that the first time that shooter is not the first.

**system**: In terms of hours for a month in third party history.

**system**: I feel like it's got to be.

**system**: It's got to be last last month it was up.

**system**: So I think it was up and it was number one last month, but that was the first month.

**system**: Good Harold it's working.

**system**: Exactly.

**system**: Cool.

**system**: Yeah, we're still kind of heavily dominated between the Shooter battle royale simulation like when we compare that to the supply chain where we're looking at like 3.5% of our supply line is coming from tycoon and then we see this disproportionate amount of gameplay hours that's where we're kind of seeing the biggest delta and yeah the takeaway that yes there is growth across the other areas which is positive.

**system**: Then when we cut that which games saw that decline in explaining the decline I mean you can see that most of these simulation and tycoons still a brain rot had a very down month do we have any hypothesis as to what happened there with those cats?

**system**: No live events or I wonder where they stumbled.

**system**: I'm not actually too sure it was on my list of things that I wanted to follow. I don't know if anyone else has a as a call here.

**system**: They have been stealing people from their own game like go up for brain rot I know it says it's down here also but I don't know the relative decline.

**system**: Yeah okay go up for brain rots has been has been gaining more steam and steel the brain what has been losing a bit of steam.

**system**: There also.

**system**: Like.

**system**: Selling basically selling promotion of other games to their community.

**system**: So they might be like cannibalizing themselves for for that menial revenue talk to them tomorrow see what.

**system**: Yeah that was another question I've got out to analytics is just like are these developers like net gaining within their portfolios because there does seem to be this like they are on the top gain is one month and on the same month they've got another game in the top decliners and there's this trade off between hours I still think there is this kind of like UGC player pattern where it's like because the barriers to entry are so low the largest flipping between experiences and so some weeks you might just.

**system**: Like favor one over the other because of a live update or something but yeah, I'm curious as if they are net gaining their portfolios.

**system**: Cool I'm not going to beloved that piece but yeah basically this is where we mash it all together and this is really the supply demand side which is driving a lot of our considerations for the genre growth initiative and so what you can see is for simulation tycoon where we've got this massive efficiency so the efficiency is just the ratio between the amount of game hours and the supply that we've got. This is year to date data rather than for a specific month. So what it's doing is comparing the first six months of this year and kind of saying like well where are those game hours versus how many titles we've got in there. And so kind of as we work our way down, I mean the sim and tycoon again the most efficient and we know that it monetizes incredibly well and so this was one of the main drivers for us to say you know and roadblocks is number one. I've poured this and we can debate if we want to use this as a proxy or not for addressable audience. But I thought it was interesting that they have the first third and fourth positions all simulation. And so again it gives us reason to kind of double down to try to increase this supply line if they are doing so well for us.

**system**: The roguelite is interesting. It's a really high efficiency on a very small sample size. So again I think this is one that we should continue to look at and monitor. It isn't up there for roadblocks but it doesn't necessarily mean there is an opportunity here.

**system**: Horror we've got in the genre growth alongside survival.

**system**: Battle royale have left us organic growth.

**system**: Through our first party and then the rest of them where our efficiency is low. I'm kind of flagging this as more as like where have we identified that the product actually has like technical tooling like deficit that is potentially not enabling us to be hitting the player hours or the quality bar of the games that is going to really grow those areas. So I think it's less of a, oh, we don't want to invest at them. It's more of how do we which tools are going to be unlocking those. And I've worked with Bobby and Sam to kind of say like well you know for role play and social we don't have character customizations. And so it's number five on roadblocks. We need to address those product issues first before we kind of look at it from a genre both perspective where we might want to seed the supply chain.

**system**: Let's make sure is efficiency just measure.

**system**: Hours versus number of island.

**system**: Exactly. Yeah it's telling us.

**system**: For every given island in genre how are they relatively better or worse.

**system**: At driving engagement.

**system**: But isn't that normal?

**system**: That or I mean I guess we should expect that situation. I couldn't take some hours because it's more longer game or not at all.

**system**: Because.

**system**: Yeah absolutely there'll be.

**system**: Nuance within the.

**system**: Game modes. I think this this for us is really just like mapping out.

**system**: Well we can kind of say that our tooling is in a reasonable position where the games within these sections are kind of showing signs that they are if you're publishing within that space we can relatively assume that you've got the tooling and the players are sticking around in those environments. And so we know that they work on our platform.

**system**: I think these areas are where we're kind of turning focus to say like well what what are the toolings needs that might get that efficiency higher.

**system**: Because I would say.

**system**: Really quickly I think we have.

**system**: If you remove the first person maybe but we have more tools for shooter than simulation and tycoon today.

**system**: In terms of capability in UFN.

**system**: Yeah for for Shooter I'm curious as to so on roblox there are like number 11 in terms of their genres like because they haven't got first party products and they haven't got the training kind of like meta going on like where are those users going and are those like differentiated kind of like standalone experiences on their own.

**system**: Versus what we have. So I think that there might be like nuance within the subgenres.

**system**: If you take it if you took rivals out of the picture that number 11 would probably plumb it pretty quickly.

**system**: Yeah.

**system**: But I mean that's true that for being socially capture customization all the tooling makes sense for those games.

**system**: And I just like call out one more time.

**system**: Like how awesome it is to be able to look at our data like this and with so much more nuance than we ever have for years like yeah, it's great.

**system**: It's so awesome. So thank you Matt and for everybody who helped us get to this point.

**system**: Is he going back to what I was saying you know.

**system**: We have.

**system**: The template coming 42 we have the mesh for the animation for the weapon.

**system**: And later on 42.something I forgot we have the damage pipeline coming as well.

**system**: And so I would love to have a follow up against okay we just enabled that do we see more island we see these hours went up for adventure RPG this kind of again creation about what really is.

**system**: And if we don't see a bump in numbers can we understand why the tool we develop worksheet or I don't know just trying to understand why it doesn't bring us what we expected the capabilities to unlock.

**microphone**: Your students.

**microphone**: With it.

**system**: What kind of tail would you want that reporting on?

**system**: I mean it's really interesting for example let's take you know this one is particularly interesting because we are going to release the adventure pg we are going to release custom abilities.

**microphone**: You understand what I.

**microphone**: Mean?

**system**: In 42 which come in August.

**system**: And we have more persistence coming it's more end of year.

**system**: But if we think today that we don't see that there are be-cos we feel there is a tooling gap if we are improving the tooling gap.

**system**: How we're going to see that number start to.

**system**: Go.

**microphone**: Good.

**microphone**: Luck.

**system**: Up.

**system**: Customability is also impact like other genres rogue line for example.

**system**: Tycoon and simulation to be honest they're very meaty in what they can do today.

**system**: Remove my stuff.

**microphone**: I was coming by the techniques for all that data.

**microphone**: I think I got it and.

**system**: We're good to move that's it on the data side so we've now just got the project reviews.

**microphone**: First I want you to.

**microphone**: Have.

**system**: I'll hand this off John are you running this?

**system**: Yeah I can take it with Eric feel free to cut in if you'd like.

**system**: Oh me okay.

**system**: Yeah sorry my mic cut out yeah, I'm happy to take this and Eric feel free to jump in.

**system**: Bill I think you're pretty familiar with a lot of these yeah I wanted to talk through Mattel if we could john get people's take hot takes on it I feel like.

**microphone**: Anywhere as.

**system**: So.

**system**: My feeling is like their their games development team is being.

**microphone**: Well.

**microphone**: I don't think she's ever.

**system**: Great and reasonable.

**system**: And like following our lead.

**microphone**: And I know.

**system**: And want to make great games.

**system**: And aren't like racing against the clock to get something out they want to make sure whatever they put out is great so like spiritually feeling good about that.

**microphone**: That is there.

**system**: What I'm not feeling good about as a business team like pushing us for.

**microphone**: I might be putting words in there. This might be a minute after.

**system**: Yeah ongoing commitments to to marketing and ongoing commitments to continually invest in content and I'm kind of losing patience with with them on that on that front like I'm not willing to make marketing guarantees and commitments on an ongoing for launch yeah so ongoing basis like if the product that they put out is shit and we have to help ensure that it's not but it could be.

**microphone**: This.

**microphone**: I do a lot there. And there's stuff there that I didn't understand.

**system**: I don't.

**system**: Like that's on on them and I don't want to be beholden to market shit.

**system**: Similarly if their universe is anemic like I want to be able to demote them and they're taking a hard line on that so like just kind of a gut check from you guys on.

**system**: On the IP like motu just bombed at the box office Uno has tremendous potential that's unrealized I think Hot Wheels is going to be.

**microphone**: I'm surprised we.

**microphone**: Had a.

**system**: Challenging because of the product apps we have with with racing and custom vehicles Barbie's got a lot of potential though different you know younger younger demo.

**microphone**: Slack.

**microphone**: With your hand.

**system**: That we don't currently have today so it would be UA play.

**system**: Like.

**microphone**: Well, there's.

**system**: How do you guys feel about the content that is going to come out of this partnership.

**system**: Are you asking like me and John are just more broadly like I have thoughts but I wanted to do whoever else wants to time chime in chime in responsible for making them successful.

**microphone**: I mean, they don't have anything.

**system**: Yeah, I think your assessment is.

**microphone**: I mean.

**system**: Fairly accurate I think there's a lot of parallels with Lego here right toy company younger demo like not a huge gaming presence although we did see like the obviously the Barbie dream house tycoon on roblox did okay honestly I kind of would have expected it to do better on roblox given that that's like you know a much closer to their demo than like we are so that's maybe not a great signal I think like modu I'm aligned with you that like motu and Hot Wheels like Hot Wheels could be cool if we have the right tools for it so that's more of a tooling gap but like yeah Tim's obsessed with hot wheels thinks it's going to be awesome but but we don't deal with the reality of the tools there's a ton of work there and then like even with the IP program what does that look like is it building levels or is it building worlds with hot wheels IP like that part's a little bit.

**microphone**: I don't know how.

**microphone**: To.

**microphone**: Put a charge.

**microphone**: I don't.

**microphone**: Know about it.

**microphone**: Once.

**microphone**: There are people. We should at least look at it from the.

**microphone**: Divine.

**microphone**: People.

**microphone**: We service the living.

**microphone**: And I.

**microphone**: Think.

**system**: We need to spend some time on but like mode two I'm not excited about Uno I think could be strong if we took like a sort of modern live ops approach you know take a monopoly go kind of approach to it with progression and multiplayer competitive and like all these different sort of like you know rather than just the uno that we shipped which everybody agrees is not great. And then Barbie is a little bit of a flyer like I think barbie could be pretty similar to Lego in that it could have like a really strong initial launch because it's like whoa shit Barbie. But then like is there enough there to really hold people? And then especially if we can't get Barbie as a cosmetic and not holding guns I think there's a lot of risks here. And if I were to like I don't know compared to like Sega for example where it's like I think there's a much clearer path to success with Sega because of these established games that like have an audience that like may not be as difficult to get as you know kids playing with dolls and like.

**microphone**: That I know what how they're losing it, but they're.

**microphone**: Not tested in shows that many of us.

**microphone**: Have access to.

**microphone**: Like,

**microphone**: We have to go to some.

**microphone**: Yeah. Because if we could just get, like, list and it'd be like, hey, is there a way you could.

**system**: I don't know so I am skeptical I think the team feels a little bit of that skepticism as well there's definitely like an excitement around if we could do Barbie well like that would be really really cool but it's it's it's definitely a risk.

**microphone**: Have or equal significant?

**microphone**: I don't.

**microphone**: Know.

**system**: I feel like when you add.

**microphone**: How.

**system**: When you add Angry Birds to Sega because it is owned by Sega and would be in the Sega universe like Sega holds up yeah just between Sonic and Angry Birds and the CTO there was talking about a second Angry Birds game and them getting you know more leaning in more to IP program.

**microphone**: To.

**system**: And then in that case I would you know I think my inclination is to play hardball with Mattel and maybe bump Sega up in terms of like the sequencing of things.

**microphone**: You know.

**microphone**: Better not just very.

**microphone**: Yeah. So, you know, I'm highlighting.

**system**: And see where where that goes.

**system**: When you say our tweezers to any issue with what we can build.

**system**: Because in my mind when I look at those except we know at which fist to me the more feasible than Barbie because of the custom mutation aspect and this kind of stuff where all twists we have some tools from racket tracing we have some vehicle with corona we can work on just curious here.

**microphone**: Hours on it. This is review.

**microphone**: Ing.

**microphone**: Well, but even if it doesn't even need to be a fast savings from an.

**system**: Reaction the fact that racing games haven't done well including our own rocket bucket racing now with Evo we bring those audiences together maybe there's more of an appetite out we'll let Eric and team talk about the tools.

**microphone**: Outdoor having to do additional.

**system**: Yeah, Bobby's here too and he could talk a little bit so like there there's there's some like there's not a ton of work to get the like what are the main things right getting better vehicle physics?

**system**: And like you know that that's obviously a big unlock do we need a track editor or other things like that you know TBD.

**microphone**: I think the way I read.

**microphone**: About is that you know that square.

**system**: I would point like I think one of the big questions that we still have that we don't have an answer to is like we look at rocket racing as a failure and it's like was it a failure because the audience didn't like the audience isn't here or is it a failure because we made the wrong game? And I think like you know a similar parallel is we look at the escape Vader game that we shipped that you know is kind of a horror based game.

**microphone**: Is very good.

**system**: And like didn't really perform but like all the other signals basically show that like you know social horror is actually doing okay in our ecosystem is actually doing quite well relative to the number that exists in our ecosystem and so like it kind of made us question like was it a problem with the execution of that game or was it that social horror is not the right genre? And we kind of deep dove on that and like the conclusion that we came to was no, it was just escape Vader was not a great game like there was a lot of the develop for those who are not aware like the development was a challenge like came in super hot almost got canceled variety of other things happened like just was not a great game. And so we now that we have some data points there that really really makes this question of like was rocket racing too hardcore? It didn't have all the fun you know Mario Kart catch up mechanics it like really missed on the kind of like what you would expect from like a fortnight racing vibe and leaned way too into the hardcore.

**microphone**: How do we do it?

**microphone**: I mean, certainly not right now.

**microphone**: Where do we go seeing where there's, like, maybe for the main.

**microphone**: Difference?

**microphone**: Exercise?

**microphone**: I mean, I agree with why.

**microphone**: The 18.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**microphone**: I'm doing it all in the rolling.

**microphone**: I like technology.

**microphone**: Or how to get.

**microphone**: You know, the stuff that's in the goal of learning.

**system**: And so I think like that's the hard part though is like that's really kind of anchored people's expectations of racing of like racing's just not going to work in our ecosystem. It's possible that bracing may not work in our ecosystem. We just don't know because we haven't done a proper version.

**microphone**: To do that.

**system**: But as far as the tooling like it's probably not a significant amount of work. I don't know, Bobby you've done a lot of thinking about that and I think some other folks have too. I don't know if you have anything my point is that the mention whether that really is too complex for the tools which is more product and tool thing which is fine.

**microphone**: I'm very excited to see how.

**microphone**: It.

**system**: And yes rocket we're seeing a thing as the same issue than the execution.

**system**: I can tell you a lot of stories on ricket tracing at the end.

**microphone**: Got air.

**microphone**: There are 160 million dollars.

**system**: How important do you think the.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**system**: Brand or toy company archetype universe is to proving out the evo vision? Not as important as say in wba for sure yeah if I look at other toy brands though like you know I get way more excited about Hasbro than I do about.

**microphone**: Anybody like your first thing?

**microphone**: I couldn't get them. Like, I was trying.

**system**: Mattel.

**system**: But how easy is it is it for a non industry professional to make the cognitive leap between like I like transformers or I like my little pony and oh that's owned by Hasbro.

**microphone**: Yeah.

**system**: Like I think there've been so many Lego games that people go like oh Lego games that's fun they may not be able to do that with like Hasbro or Mattel as easily there's also a lot there's also a lot of concern about like yeah no one knows Mattel so like Darsh concerned about even calling it Mattel universe because it's like oh yeah yeah.

**system**: That's the that's the house of brands comment it's like players don't think about things of like oh, I'm going to go play with my Mattel toys like we wouldn't have a do big universe we would have to steal the brain rot universe or we would have a grow garden universe like we that's right.

**system**: Yeah do you think it's a little different with Sega where now maybe this is just the like I'm old and I you know I associate with you know Sega consoles and stuff like that but Sega has a stronger brand of like okay sonic and and games where it's like that to me is not that it's not at the same level at all of Mattel where it's like what Mattel what's that yeah no it's a it's a recognizable consumer brand in gaming what would be the the opportunity to go faster with wb it's already signed yeah there's meetings apparently there's there's meetings happening next week.

**microphone**: That's.

**microphone**: When I smelled it.

**microphone**: We're gonna realize this.

**system**: And to identify they have a team spun up they get devs now SIG is engaged but they're going slowly and very cautiously starting with super Japanese a lot in a lot of ways Warner Brothers could could end up moving quite quite quickly depending on the IP that they choose and the where the.

**microphone**: Earlier.

**microphone**: It's so many.

**system**: Ownership of the IP lives the only wild card there I guess is the.

**microphone**: Out.

**system**: You know the merger and the reorg that could really do damage to our progress.

**microphone**: Of.

**system**: Well only well Paramount also wants to do a universe they have no idea that this has happened that we've signed our deal they're not allowed to know it'll be interesting to see what happens I could get bigger.

**microphone**: Natural.

**system**: For what it's worth looking at the term sheet I didn't read their requests for the marketing asks and the editorial stuff as as tough as maybe you did it seemed like they brought some more lawyers onto the agreement and they asked the same questions that we had already you know denied I just feel like when we get to the definitive agreement it it they're going to be a nightmare yeah yeah and the IP is not that compelling I kind of want to nip it I kind of want to nip it in the bud and see what they do because I honestly we launch with Sega first and then Warner Brothers or vice versa depending how quickly each one of them moves like just picking one IP for Mattel and you know building something great around it.

**system**: And then proving success along the way.

**system**: Could and building towards the universe is probably the better strategy with them.

**system**: Starting with games for the megaverse does feel like a safer faster thing to do yeah she did it officer is going to wig out when I proposed that but if I'm just take a hard line stance on all the other requests then it might.

**system**: Organically head there.

**system**: But.

**system**: Okay all the other slides in this section are kind of iterations on what we're looking at just then so I don't know that we need to go through the next two per se.

**system**: No I do think that that point on Stacy like you and Tom and team like working on the.

**microphone**: Diversified unit.

**system**: Framework for how we're going to mark these is going to be important because it's going to come up with every conversation.

**system**: Yeah we were.

**system**: I guess that's.

**system**: My question though like we don't I don't know that we can support.

**system**: Three universe launches.

**system**: Next year and ensure that megaverse is successful.

**system**: With the resources that you have with the resources we have.

**system**: We can bring on agencies to do all that we just need to build it into our plans for next year.

**system**: The other question I have is like do we think.

**system**: Do we think that and I think Eric and I were just talking about this like do we think that when we launch evo we're ready to start like pitching the future extensions into new universes?

**system**: Like in march next year are we going to say and metal or and sega is coming in three months? I don't know that we need to.

**microphone**: Basically created an impulse.

**system**: I think from an evo perspective we might want to though because yeah, but there's just too much risk like I don't want to talk about this stuff until we feel it's kind of like when we talk about evo we we want to talk about it when we have high confidence in delivering which is not there yet with these guys yeah no I'm saying like next year.

**system**: Yeah I mean when we announce being able to say like these other universes are coming but not like in the ux are you suggesting that we put it on the no no not in the U no no I'm saying like from a comms perspective that this is like yeah bigger than this is bigger than I think we should our investors that's the that's the story yeah because my feeling when we started this whole thing was we got to have we have to have a couple that aren't just us and our investors at launch to legitimize this thing so I do think like announcing that there's more coming more partners coming up more universes launching over the course of the years an important message yeah.

**microphone**: Well, I appreciate you guys coming out. Did I add for you all?

**microphone**: I've been back.

**system**: Okay.

**microphone**: To back.

**system**: I think the one other thing that like so if we're mostly done with talking about the some of the other stuff here the one thing I did want to bring up was genre growth and tycoon for the end of the year are we are we done with the rest of the stuff that we okay to switch over to that for the last 10 minutes? Yep sure.

**microphone**: And happy to have on.

**microphone**: Your.

**system**: Because I think that's a good segue based on kind of the stuff you brought up Bill about Mattel and like how like urgent the timeline is there so we've really been like trying to deep dive into the production plan for how do we support you know Mattel and then a fast follow of Sega next year and then you know eventually double WB and like I don't have a like super concise production like I don't have a you know here's exactly how many headcount we need but like we have some ballpark numbers and it's kind of indicating that like.

**microphone**: Foreign.

**microphone**: Activity.

**microphone**: I hadn't fixed it.

**microphone**: Like,

**system**: It's probably like we're probably already understaffed just to do Mattel even if we were to cancel the genre growth tycoon thing for the end of this year and so it's kind of putting us in a position of like we have to decide okay what's more important are we like are we going to continue to push for continued genre expansion for megaverse late this year?

**microphone**: Do you like it? I remember getting into walls.

**microphone**: Oh, yeah, yeah.

**system**: Is our universes more important? Like how do we kind of reconcile, you know, all these different competing priorities and just knowing that we don't really have the ability to do all of it?

**microphone**: Those costs into people I didn't.

**microphone**: Miss.

**system**: And so that's kind of the that's kind of where we're at.

**system**: My my view is that within these universes there's going to be we have the opportunity to build new new games and news that that deliver on the genre push.

**microphone**: Yeah, we need my planning.

**system**: Goals. Right. And so rather than doing your genre push with three, you know, three example hours we just kind of do it within this the universe.

**microphone**: It's like six months.

**system**: Initiative. So we combine we we combine and we've talked a little bit about that so like for example one of the accelerator titles hardship or heart space ship breaker is a game that we're publishing for later this year and it's going to you know it's it's basically a tycoon game. And so the thinking was okay cool that's one less game that we have to develop directly right like they own the game they own the design they own the creation of that thing and we just then are focused more on sort of like the supporting aspects right the marketing and the rewards and all of that. But I guess what they're not getting is access to tools.

**microphone**: If I make it.

**microphone**: Sleep.

**microphone**: This thing's on the floor.

**system**: That's right like we're not building custom tools for them. We're not sh we're not necessarily shaping the UEFN roadmap for them specifically.

**microphone**: Not only that.

**system**: But they would benefit from any of the other stuff that we have coming.

**system**: Yeah.

**system**: I feel like that's the right approach.

**system**: So then we would really like the one part there though is like.

**system**: If now we could move back genre the tycoon push to later next year hard space shipbreaker is the only one that falls in December this year. Like if we wanted to pair tycoon with Mattel games. So like for example we make a Barbie tycoon game, you know dream house tycoon or whatever.

**microphone**: So this is a year, like today.

**system**: That wouldn't line up with our current roadmap for the genre growth stuff. So we would either have to like push back genre growth to march, which we could do or we figure out a way to you know, I don't think it's reasonable for us to build a Barbie game by the end of the year just given where we're at and obviously with the negotiations and everything.

**microphone**: Lock sound.

**system**: So I don't know we could definitely go back to the drawing board and think about that. But I think like.

**microphone**: New vascular.

**microphone**: Yeah, well, more like.

**system**: I don't know publishing some games that are not branded.

**microphone**: Therapy.

**system**: That are not kind of proven IP already like hard space.

**microphone**: I think at this time, my dog just jumps all over all the time.

**system**: Is going to be difficult for us to like go and build.

**system**: Bobby if you have anything to add as kind of the owner of the genre growth initiative.

**system**: But.

**system**: I'll just say.

**system**: The really sticky point, the immediate sticky sticky point is we already RFP for the tycoon genre push and we've had, you know, 10 or so creators spend two weeks putting together the proposals and they expect they're expecting answers on selections today.

**microphone**: Give me a shot.

**system**: So we just need to come to determination very quickly. Are we canceling tycoon genre push and just wrapping it inside these universe efforts? Because if so we need to let them know hey our business parties have changed and this is getting you know put on hold. We can but think we we can it's our it's our own imposed deadline like we can push that that like decision today back and buy us more time if we need to like I think we can we can craft a message to our developers and say like look we need just a little bit more time. I think that that is reasonable. Like we don't have to feel like we have to make a decision today.

**system**: But I hear you on the urgency right like.

**system**: Five months four months before December anyway. So like it's not a lot of time to begin with.

**system**: Do you have a more crisper.

**system**: Is it just between for example metal and metal sorry and tycoon or something else.

**system**: Also the difference between Mattel and the tycoon push. So like Mattel is potentially multiple games with multiple different IP they're much higher scope and cost than like then the genre push. And we have to eventually start like given the current.

**system**: Roadmap, which of course can change. We've got Mattel in March or excuse me Mattel in summer so like June, July. And then we have Sega later next year maybe fallish. But we have to stagger those. We have to overlap them right and like so if we're going to begin work for for Mattel we need to kind of kick that off ASAP and the IP program team just doesn't have enough people to be able to support three completely, you know, unique IP simultaneously.

**system**: But I mean.

**system**: From.

**system**: Your recommendation basically because I agree with you and you know that's what we started discussing already before the break and where we want to focus kind of stuff.

**system**: We had metal right we seem to.

**system**: Decide where you want to go.

**system**: I mean like.

**system**: It feels to me like I don't know.

**system**: What you're saying Grover garden isn't necessarily a simulation but but there's there's I feel like there's more content coming.

**system**: In from third parties independently that are going to fill that gap.

**system**: And then like you said like Barbie's probably going to be a sin tycoon.

**system**: Game very well could be so.

**system**: If we did the Shrek, you know cozy game that we've been talking about for example.

**system**: Like I just feel like the genre is going to get filled either organically through some of the third parties. I saw a couple mega grants that were in that genre.

**system**: And then you know through these more strategic partnerships.

**system**: I hate the fact that we spun off the RFP and would potentially back away at this point. But we could also.

**system**: Do like off cycle mega grants for them or squeeze them into the current cycle.

**system**: Which hasn't been fully finalized yet.

**system**: And we like, you know, we're going to be spinning up a ton of new games with with Mattel and Sega, right? So like and the RFPs are going to go straight back to these teams, right? Like these are, you know, kind of the best teams that we want to work with. So it's not like there's not going to be work. It's just it sucks that we ask them to, you know, put together some pitches. But I mean that is kind of introduced risk to them if we lock those teams up doing the genre push work and then they're not available to do the universe. That's right. Which I would say is more strategic.

**system**: In the messaging that I've already crafted just in case we do pull the trigger on shelving tycoon. We do highlight that.

**system**: You know.

**system**: We're kind of pivoting to, you know, other priorities for the business, but that that will include, you know, a number of RFPs for these new initiatives that we would like to reach out to these same developers about. So trying to kind of soften the blow a little bit.

**system**: But can we like you in machining? I forgot that.

**system**: Could we move metal more to our tycoon? Because we're already working on it. And so we try to align both together. Yeah, that's what I, that's what I'm saying. I think there is alignment there. The Barbie game that we're talking about is probably going to be like some kind of a tycoon game. Although there are some other cool ideas too.

**system**: But.

**system**: It's like, and Hot Wheels could too. Certainly the, you know, the car garage custom builder, you know, tycoon.

**system**: I think Mo2 is the one that's just kind of the, it doesn't fit.

**system**: I think we're like, we're, we're still very like the validation and the reason for tycoon is all super sound.

**system**: Like it's a high performing genre. It monetizes super well. I'm very excited to see what happens with droid tycoon this weekend when they add their in game transactions. I assume that's going to like quadruple their revenue, if not more like the people who are dedicated to this game are dedicated.

**system**: And so like there's clearly a strong market for tycoon games in our ecosystem. So we, we need to like foster that. It's just do we do it under.

**system**: Do we do it under this December push or do we kind of rewrap it into like something, you know, else for.

**system**: Next year?

**system**: Okay.

**system**: My inclination is to rewrap it and I'm kind of leaning there just because of the risk of we're going to need these good developers to work on.

**system**: The strategic.

**system**: Partnerships.

**system**: And I'd like to get a sense from Hannah as to like how many.

**system**: I want to get better at tracking like what we know as in development and what genres they're in so we can see what organically is being worked on.

**system**: And that might fill a gap for us.

**system**: And then maybe lean in a bit, help them.

**system**: Without having to fund and kind of project manageable thing.

**system**: Don't, don't forget as well about everything we're releasing.

**microphone**: Hey.

**system**: At the end of this year that's going to enable a lot what icon as well.

**system**: So you already kind of wrote it doing it. We're already making the tools. Yeah, exactly. So then, then it's really about just driving building awareness that the tools are coming continuous steady beat of success.

**system**: Stories around the existing.

**system**: Tycoon sim games.

**system**: And there'll be heavy with in island transactions.

**system**: Possibly making a change to the discovery algorithm surface. Those games that have been on transactions.

**system**: More like there's going to be a lot to talk about to drive growth in the genre without us doing the genre.

**system**: Push program that we have been doing.

**system**: Well, what I was going to say is like with we can still run a marketing campaign that focuses on tycoon simulation games and promoting them. And we can take like we should make a concerted effort in Q4 around mobile.

**system**: And probably international growth for mobile.

**system**: And we can leverage the tycoon games that we already have in our ecosystem and any new ones that come in over the next few months to support that campaign.

**system**: Regardless of what exemplars we have or not because we have the best games in our ecosystem that are retaining.

**system**: Our tycoons.

**system**: The average player minutes in droid tycoon is like over two hours.

**system**: Yeah, it's nuts like Kevin's doing a pretty good job of letting everyone know too on social, which is good. So I guess we can still push the genre without doing it without doing three exemplar games.

**system**: Is the point.

**system**: Yeah.

**system**: I'm yeah with that. I'm in favor of yeah, we'll kill it.

**system**: Trying to give these guys a soft landing, but also like letting them know that there's a bunch of stuff on deck.

**system**: We should see if any of the concepts might translate into some of the IP that we're working with as well.

**system**: Yeah, that's a good point. Like could any of them map to Barbie or Hot Wheels or anything?

**system**: Okay.

**system**: Anything else? IP program.

**system**: We didn't really talk about the IP program. I think we have to have a separate meeting on that specifically given the conversations that happened.

**system**: Yesterday in the, in the meeting around all the rules that we need to.

**system**: Contemplate the economics of that program and stacking IP and all the implications there. I think we just need to turn that in more holistic.

**system**: Like here's here's, how do we make it self service so that we can make it more scalable? Like we need.

**system**: To have a whole work stream on IP program evolution.

**system**: Yeah, the self service stuff is, is ongoing. I wasn't able to make the meeting this week, but like we're still heavily scoping that and looking at all the work there. Um, so we can schedule a follow up to go into the details there. The one thing that we do need to figure out, Bill, I sent you a native DM is like.

**system**: How do we want to message to Hasbro about DD?

**system**: Because we're, we're either, you know, we're postponing it or we're, we're canceling it. But either way, you know, I don't see it coming anytime before 2028. And so we need to basically give them a heads up that this is not a priority anymore. Yep.

**system**: Who owns that relationship? I don't even know.

**system**: Yeah, Veronica justice is the closest thing to an owner, but they were dealing with Andre way back when, when the discussion first started. So we need to kind of reestablish. They've reorganged on their side too. Okay.

**system**: Okay.

**system**: We have a Friday deadline of sorts where the new guys expecting a project update.

**system**: And the update is we're not doing the project anymore. So we need to figure out how we, if we pitch them Evo and say, sorry, we're taking the project away, but maybe we'll do this together in the future.

**system**: They got some good IP, arguably better than Mattel for us. They do. I agree. I know.

**system**: The team's pretty passionate about it, but I did. We, we have to tell them we're not going to do the program and we're going to circle back with them about how to make progress while it's on the back burner. Yeah.

**system**: There's no paper with them yet. Maybe it is in the context of Evo that we have that conversation. They don't know about you. They know about. No, I don't think anyone's pitched it to them. I think that one dude.

**system**: In, well, gog, what's his name? He's been in the games industry for decades. I think we talked to him about it. I don't know that it went anywhere.

**system**: Internally.

**system**: So let's do that. Let's, I'm happy to join the meeting too when we.

**system**: Break it to them or have the next app conversation.

**system**: Okay. So do you want us to mention Evo to them or is it more of a generic like we have some interesting strategic priorities that are shifting our focus, but we want to talk to you about them. Talk to you about the moments, right? Yes.

**system**: We can talk to him about evo as well. But that's, that's the strategic priority that shifting things around like who's launching universes and what the bandwidth we have to execute.

**system**: So delivering that message along with, hey, we want, we want, we think there's an opportunity to participate. We'd be good.

**system**: Cool. Thanks everyone.

**system**: Thank you. Useful. Thanks for having.

**system**: Me.